As you know, I'm a "guy" :). I hope I can bring something to this subject from that perspective. First, I got shivers reading both of your pieces. I felt your discomfort and...fear. So please understand that I get how you feel your life has been invaded by this person. Not acceptable.
But here is a guys take:
Most of us guys are pathetic. We are in a forever circular loop of seeking approval from females. It goes right back to needing to please Mom. That can be helpful to some degree in a relationship. But beyond that it gets complicated. And clumsy. And awkward. And often, inappropriate.
It could be that this character just wants you to like him. And then he resumes his coffee. I have had many, many more female friends than guys. My most enjoyable years in a retail merchandising career was when I led a team of women buyers (we ran the women's sportswear division). The work, the dinners in NYC - the camaraderie was a joy. The guys in the menswear division were jerks. One of the happiest days in my career was when the boss offered me a plum job in women's wear. Mens wear had been dull and frankly a lot less profitable. Sorry, I am digressing.
Or this guy is looking for more. It doesn't really matter, does it? You want to be left alone. That's your human right.
So for what it is worth, if I were that guy and I was innocently looking for a female connection of any kind...I mean where DO you meet new people? I would appreciate a straight forward version of
"I want to be alone to exercise. Privately. No talking. No new friends. Just exercise. Please don't try to engage with me. Thank you for understanding."
If he is indeed a "stalker" (the Googling was creepy!) and he persists, unfortunately, you are now, through no fault of your own, in a danger zone. Tell the management, call the cops if it gets weirder, go to another gym. It ain't fair. It ain't right. But if he is that horrible, your safety is paramount.
Hope it's OK for me to jump in here. But your story disturbed me, made me worried. This guy needs a direct red light, full stop message. If he has any decency or normalcy, he will fade away.
"I want to be alone to exercise. Privately. No talking. No new friends. Just exercise. Thank you for understanding." That should do it. Maybe after that, don't take off the headphones the inevitable next time he tries to talk. Even toddlers learn eventually.
Thanks Bill, and your perspective is always most welcomed. Many of the ladies who have commented here have read your thoughts and are the better for it. I never thought about the connection men have about pleasing women, and you're right, many friendships have been forged at the gym. I don't feel in the danger zone yet, but like I said, I haven't had positive past experiences with random guys, so I am going to be hyper-vigilant.
The other day i bumped into a man at the gym and he was apologetic, made a joke, and we both moved on. I was so glad to know that most of the guys working out there are just normal guys, and not pathetic at all.
I’m lucky, I go to the gym at the university where I work. It’s mostly kids avoiding eye contact or colleagues I am friends with & that suits me just fine. Plus, I wear headphones. Or am walking the track with a friend I walk with, so we’re already talking. It helps. Your experiences are why I hesitate to go anywhere else, which isn’t ideal in summer & holidays. Good luck & I wish I had sage experiential advice that could help. It’s rough out there. I mostly choose avoidance, which is not the answer. You’re not alone, though.
Ilona, that's maddening. The worst part is that as women, we always need to be on alert. It may be as Bill Alstrom says, and just a lonely guy who can't take a hint. But unless he's missing all the cues or has decided to try to wear you down, you have made yourself clear, and he's not getting it. The googling and then telling you about it is a huge red flag, as well as asking you about your education and then attempting to flatter you with his thoughts about it. I agree with Bill, that a first step is to tell him that you want privacy when you exercise. If that doesn't work, talk to the management. These two choices would be hard for me, if I'm honest. Let us know what happens next!
Yes, they are hard for me, too. I want to be a kind and compassionate person, and sometimes that costs me my peace of mind. I will say something next time, and let you know how it goes.
I read a piece in the Guardian a few days ago about how people in general, men and women, have lost a lot of communication skills due to devices and the one-sideness of social media. It's by Anita Chaudhuri. Covid lockdown didn't help either. I find myself trapped in conversations I don't want, and the article helped me find ways to set boundaries. Yes, people are lonely but it's not my job to drop my privacy and heal them. That was my takeaway.
And it's not my job either, thank you very much. I looked up Anita Chaudhuri's article. I chuckled at some of her names like The Care Bear and the Boomerasker. Thanks for including your thoughts to the conversation.
Oh, for gods sake, use your words. Say "nothing personal, but this is my meditation time and I don't care to talk." Then, if you see him, don't look at him. Don't remove your headphones when he approaches. If you happen to catch his eye, don't smile. I like what someone below said as well - no new friends. You don't want him to think you are open to engaging in conversation when you're done exercising.
God! Aren’t they just so boring. Having to manage them is boring. I have found that being blunt and honest sometimes works. But no always means maybe to this kind of man. So manipulate him. (Sad but true). I have said : I’m sorry but I don’t talk in the gym. Smile to finish the comment (the fake smile) then put your headphones back on, turn your head and leave the headphones on. If he speaks again, smile lamely and point to your headphones eyes shifting away from him. No more eye contact.
Or mention it to the woman at the desk and she might be able to keep an eye out.
Do you feel threatened by him? Or is he still at nuisance level.
And the way you will say it - it will be an explanation with great clarity. You will sort him out - I am sure. He just needs to be introduced to modern boundaries.
Yes, you’re right—it is soooo boring. I don’t feel threatened but I feel like I can’t relax. He was there this morning when I went extra early. He had brought his breakfast and was sitting in the cafe eating it. I think he spends several hours there and I noticed a young female staffer chatting with him.
He might be lonely but that does not excuse it - there is a certain accepted code in gyms - allowing people their space to work out. A cafe, a bar etc, might be a little different. But definitely whilst sweating on a machine with one’s headphones on no less, we expect to be left alone. Eyes averted. The gym is not a hunting ground.
Apparently it’s our job to massage the egos of lonely old men. I worked in a gym for 7 years so I know. There’s a guy at my gym who lost his wife to pancreatic cancer a few years ago. He talks to all of us and we all know his story. We are sorry for his loss but he just talks and talks about himself and it never occurs to him that the rest of us are anything but a giant ear. More about this here:
I read it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The diagnosis or categorization of a person doesn't matter. Whether they are lonely, bored, on the spectrum, or whatever, people are entitled to be left alone. Most of all, I do want to be kind, but not at my own expense.
I never answered those questions. I don’t tell people how I spell my name. I don’t talk about my education. I say I’m in a hurry and need to concentrate on my workout.
I say I barely have enough time to get through my to do list, I just will not have time to chat. Or I’ll say something like maybe you should bring your wife/girlfriend to the gym so you have somebody to talk to while you work out.
I do not make eye contact. I do not smile and if they don’t get the hint, I say go away or I’m gonna blow this whistle. (I wear a whistle on my neck Every time I leave the house it has worked in stores.)
Fortunately, the gym I do go to now is really popular with senior women. Those old angels do not mess around. Boys pop their heads in and vamoose.
The dread does ruin the workout, but…..I want to go to the gym when I want to go. I don’t want to let his actions impact mine. It’s the principle of the thing. I’m so over doing work-arounds because of men.
I know it's a bit of a nuanced situation. If you read the post that I hyperlinked from two weeks ago, you will see Gym Guy is delving deeper and trying to cozy up. Like you, I also don't mind chatting at all, but this guy is giving me the ick.
I have thought a lot about this, especially because I have only experienced this type of situation a couple of times. I have been told I give off clear vibes when I don’t want to be bothered. Interestingly, I was unaware that others could tell but I do have times that I want solitude and apparently it’s transparent. I asked if I scowl or have a nasty face. No. It’s a sense that others can pick up from me. Maybe this guy would be oblivious to it. Sounds like he does not pick up on social cues well. But I also would have no problem telling him that I do not want to engage while working out and thank him for his understanding. I hope you are able to come to a comfortable solution just right for you. You should be able to enjoy your time at the gym. His loneliness, or whatever is causing this interaction, is not your problem.
Yes, thanks Jan. I wish your face were my face! Mine apparently is an open invitation even when I don’t mean it. I’ll let you know when Gym Guy finally gets the message.
Sorry for your discomfort. Sucks when you're just trying to do right by what you need for your health and well-being. Kinda makes me glad I'm still carrying extra weight and haven't been in a gym more than 3x since Covid.
Thanks, Lisa. It is a small discomfort but I am glad that I have the support of so many in the comments. I am remembering how much I like the gym after being there for the past couple months. I really enjoy moving my body, but sometimes it is difficult to get going. I do not love the elliptical, but enjoy the weights.
It is wonderful to move the body and build one's strength. I loved the elliptical but never got quite into the weights. I have enough at home to get the movement and strength training to keep lean muscle mass. Motivation is something else. I've got three machines I paid a total of $50 for... and enough to lift and strengthen. Good on you taking such disciplined care of yourself.
Why is it that we women HAVE to be on the defensive as our first reaction? I get it though, I try to give the benefit of the doubt until something ‘feels’ off. And we know when something feels off.
I appreciate Bill’s perspective and agree that maybe this man just wants someone to be kind to him (but yes the googling is weird). I like being polite but frank with him. If bounds are overstepped further after being frank, then I’d talk to management at the gym (I was the health director at a Y for years and we did have to talk with some members). But yes, don’t change your routine and protect your peace. Good luck!
I wonder how those conversations went when you had to talk to the over-stepper. Did those discussions lead to changed behavior? Honestly, I don’t love rejecting him, but my peace of mind is stake.
Oh I usually had them with our executive director, a man. They were pretty mild really and once the member knew that if there were any more incidents their membership would be revoked, it was fine.
I think you can be polite but direct that you are there to not make friends just work out!
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this and agree with you that you shouldn’t be put in this position, yet again. And Bill’s perspective is a good share, both for reminding us men often try to please women harkening back to their relationships with their mothers and in suggesting you be more direct with gym guy. In my experience, in most situations, men will look for the loophole in what you say to dissuade them if they want something, it’s how many if them were socialized. If you can be direct and firm, they seem to read it better. There’s always the risk of backlash but in most cases leaving them no room to question your meaning and their next move is best. Short and sweet, “Thanks for stopping by, but I don’t have a lot of time and I need to stay focused on my workouts when I’m here. Have a great day.” And, of course, smile the same smile you’d give to a woman who was cramping your workout time. Hope this helps.
I like the sentiment of the sentence you proposed, Niki. I can hear you saying that! I agree that Bill has offered us some male insight which is also very appreciated.
It’s a hard topic for me to give advice on because when the gym at my corner closed years ago, I had my carpenter set me up at a gym system in my house.
I am concerned about the comment from the gentleman who mentioned that you could be in danger and that upsets me! If you continue going to that gym, and he is still there, be careful, my friend!
Thanks, Cathy. I just want to work out in peace and I'm hoping some of the great feedback and suggested language from our community today will find its way to my lips and work its magic. I'm glad you are working out on the regular. It is soooo important for us ladies.
Dear "Substack friend".
As you know, I'm a "guy" :). I hope I can bring something to this subject from that perspective. First, I got shivers reading both of your pieces. I felt your discomfort and...fear. So please understand that I get how you feel your life has been invaded by this person. Not acceptable.
But here is a guys take:
Most of us guys are pathetic. We are in a forever circular loop of seeking approval from females. It goes right back to needing to please Mom. That can be helpful to some degree in a relationship. But beyond that it gets complicated. And clumsy. And awkward. And often, inappropriate.
It could be that this character just wants you to like him. And then he resumes his coffee. I have had many, many more female friends than guys. My most enjoyable years in a retail merchandising career was when I led a team of women buyers (we ran the women's sportswear division). The work, the dinners in NYC - the camaraderie was a joy. The guys in the menswear division were jerks. One of the happiest days in my career was when the boss offered me a plum job in women's wear. Mens wear had been dull and frankly a lot less profitable. Sorry, I am digressing.
Or this guy is looking for more. It doesn't really matter, does it? You want to be left alone. That's your human right.
So for what it is worth, if I were that guy and I was innocently looking for a female connection of any kind...I mean where DO you meet new people? I would appreciate a straight forward version of
"I want to be alone to exercise. Privately. No talking. No new friends. Just exercise. Please don't try to engage with me. Thank you for understanding."
If he is indeed a "stalker" (the Googling was creepy!) and he persists, unfortunately, you are now, through no fault of your own, in a danger zone. Tell the management, call the cops if it gets weirder, go to another gym. It ain't fair. It ain't right. But if he is that horrible, your safety is paramount.
Hope it's OK for me to jump in here. But your story disturbed me, made me worried. This guy needs a direct red light, full stop message. If he has any decency or normalcy, he will fade away.
"I want to be alone to exercise. Privately. No talking. No new friends. Just exercise. Thank you for understanding." That should do it. Maybe after that, don't take off the headphones the inevitable next time he tries to talk. Even toddlers learn eventually.
Yes, LOL, although this is a mouthful. The truth is I’m not against talking just not to him.
Ok, good to know.
Thanks Bill, and your perspective is always most welcomed. Many of the ladies who have commented here have read your thoughts and are the better for it. I never thought about the connection men have about pleasing women, and you're right, many friendships have been forged at the gym. I don't feel in the danger zone yet, but like I said, I haven't had positive past experiences with random guys, so I am going to be hyper-vigilant.
The other day i bumped into a man at the gym and he was apologetic, made a joke, and we both moved on. I was so glad to know that most of the guys working out there are just normal guys, and not pathetic at all.
He sounds like a man child, it doesn’t know how to have a conversation with a woman and doesn’t know when and when not is appropriate
Agreed. I wish he'd move on.
I’m lucky, I go to the gym at the university where I work. It’s mostly kids avoiding eye contact or colleagues I am friends with & that suits me just fine. Plus, I wear headphones. Or am walking the track with a friend I walk with, so we’re already talking. It helps. Your experiences are why I hesitate to go anywhere else, which isn’t ideal in summer & holidays. Good luck & I wish I had sage experiential advice that could help. It’s rough out there. I mostly choose avoidance, which is not the answer. You’re not alone, though.
Ilona, that's maddening. The worst part is that as women, we always need to be on alert. It may be as Bill Alstrom says, and just a lonely guy who can't take a hint. But unless he's missing all the cues or has decided to try to wear you down, you have made yourself clear, and he's not getting it. The googling and then telling you about it is a huge red flag, as well as asking you about your education and then attempting to flatter you with his thoughts about it. I agree with Bill, that a first step is to tell him that you want privacy when you exercise. If that doesn't work, talk to the management. These two choices would be hard for me, if I'm honest. Let us know what happens next!
Yes, they are hard for me, too. I want to be a kind and compassionate person, and sometimes that costs me my peace of mind. I will say something next time, and let you know how it goes.
I read a piece in the Guardian a few days ago about how people in general, men and women, have lost a lot of communication skills due to devices and the one-sideness of social media. It's by Anita Chaudhuri. Covid lockdown didn't help either. I find myself trapped in conversations I don't want, and the article helped me find ways to set boundaries. Yes, people are lonely but it's not my job to drop my privacy and heal them. That was my takeaway.
And it's not my job either, thank you very much. I looked up Anita Chaudhuri's article. I chuckled at some of her names like The Care Bear and the Boomerasker. Thanks for including your thoughts to the conversation.
Another is that a man’s worst fear is that a woman might laugh at him, while a woman fears that a man might kill them.
TRUTH! The amount of male violence in the world is the overwhelming evidence. Things have only gotten worse under the current administration.
The new cliche is that most women would choose “a bear “ over an unknown man if confronted on a street.
I'm a bear person.
He Googled you and told you about it?! That is not ok!
Agreed!
Oh, for gods sake, use your words. Say "nothing personal, but this is my meditation time and I don't care to talk." Then, if you see him, don't look at him. Don't remove your headphones when he approaches. If you happen to catch his eye, don't smile. I like what someone below said as well - no new friends. You don't want him to think you are open to engaging in conversation when you're done exercising.
Thanks! I like the phrases you’ve shared. Don’t worry, I will be using my words the next time.
God! Aren’t they just so boring. Having to manage them is boring. I have found that being blunt and honest sometimes works. But no always means maybe to this kind of man. So manipulate him. (Sad but true). I have said : I’m sorry but I don’t talk in the gym. Smile to finish the comment (the fake smile) then put your headphones back on, turn your head and leave the headphones on. If he speaks again, smile lamely and point to your headphones eyes shifting away from him. No more eye contact.
Or mention it to the woman at the desk and she might be able to keep an eye out.
Do you feel threatened by him? Or is he still at nuisance level.
And thanks for the suggested blow off. I will probably land somewhere within that sentence the next time he appears.
And the way you will say it - it will be an explanation with great clarity. You will sort him out - I am sure. He just needs to be introduced to modern boundaries.
Yes, you’re right—it is soooo boring. I don’t feel threatened but I feel like I can’t relax. He was there this morning when I went extra early. He had brought his breakfast and was sitting in the cafe eating it. I think he spends several hours there and I noticed a young female staffer chatting with him.
He might be lonely but that does not excuse it - there is a certain accepted code in gyms - allowing people their space to work out. A cafe, a bar etc, might be a little different. But definitely whilst sweating on a machine with one’s headphones on no less, we expect to be left alone. Eyes averted. The gym is not a hunting ground.
Apparently it’s our job to massage the egos of lonely old men. I worked in a gym for 7 years so I know. There’s a guy at my gym who lost his wife to pancreatic cancer a few years ago. He talks to all of us and we all know his story. We are sorry for his loss but he just talks and talks about himself and it never occurs to him that the rest of us are anything but a giant ear. More about this here:
https://substack.com/@marthabrightanandakrishnan/p-204283263
I read it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. The diagnosis or categorization of a person doesn't matter. Whether they are lonely, bored, on the spectrum, or whatever, people are entitled to be left alone. Most of all, I do want to be kind, but not at my own expense.
I never answered those questions. I don’t tell people how I spell my name. I don’t talk about my education. I say I’m in a hurry and need to concentrate on my workout.
I say I barely have enough time to get through my to do list, I just will not have time to chat. Or I’ll say something like maybe you should bring your wife/girlfriend to the gym so you have somebody to talk to while you work out.
I do not make eye contact. I do not smile and if they don’t get the hint, I say go away or I’m gonna blow this whistle. (I wear a whistle on my neck Every time I leave the house it has worked in stores.)
Fortunately, the gym I do go to now is really popular with senior women. Those old angels do not mess around. Boys pop their heads in and vamoose.
Wow, a whistle! Thanks for the advice, CMH. Love the suggestion to bring your wife or girlfriend. SO good!!!!
I know it doesn't help you, but you asked what I would do (I think). I would go at a different time and day. My dread would ruin my workout.
The dread does ruin the workout, but…..I want to go to the gym when I want to go. I don’t want to let his actions impact mine. It’s the principle of the thing. I’m so over doing work-arounds because of men.
I am happy I’ve never experienced this. Either I’m too unattractive or give off an unapproachable vibe.
Or else I interpret being talked to as fine? I don’t object to small talk in public.
I honestly don’t know how to interpret it.
I know it's a bit of a nuanced situation. If you read the post that I hyperlinked from two weeks ago, you will see Gym Guy is delving deeper and trying to cozy up. Like you, I also don't mind chatting at all, but this guy is giving me the ick.
I have thought a lot about this, especially because I have only experienced this type of situation a couple of times. I have been told I give off clear vibes when I don’t want to be bothered. Interestingly, I was unaware that others could tell but I do have times that I want solitude and apparently it’s transparent. I asked if I scowl or have a nasty face. No. It’s a sense that others can pick up from me. Maybe this guy would be oblivious to it. Sounds like he does not pick up on social cues well. But I also would have no problem telling him that I do not want to engage while working out and thank him for his understanding. I hope you are able to come to a comfortable solution just right for you. You should be able to enjoy your time at the gym. His loneliness, or whatever is causing this interaction, is not your problem.
Yes, thanks Jan. I wish your face were my face! Mine apparently is an open invitation even when I don’t mean it. I’ll let you know when Gym Guy finally gets the message.
Yes, keep us updated. I’m not very fond of this creepy guy.
Sorry for your discomfort. Sucks when you're just trying to do right by what you need for your health and well-being. Kinda makes me glad I'm still carrying extra weight and haven't been in a gym more than 3x since Covid.
Thanks, Lisa. It is a small discomfort but I am glad that I have the support of so many in the comments. I am remembering how much I like the gym after being there for the past couple months. I really enjoy moving my body, but sometimes it is difficult to get going. I do not love the elliptical, but enjoy the weights.
It is wonderful to move the body and build one's strength. I loved the elliptical but never got quite into the weights. I have enough at home to get the movement and strength training to keep lean muscle mass. Motivation is something else. I've got three machines I paid a total of $50 for... and enough to lift and strengthen. Good on you taking such disciplined care of yourself.
Why is it that we women HAVE to be on the defensive as our first reaction? I get it though, I try to give the benefit of the doubt until something ‘feels’ off. And we know when something feels off.
I appreciate Bill’s perspective and agree that maybe this man just wants someone to be kind to him (but yes the googling is weird). I like being polite but frank with him. If bounds are overstepped further after being frank, then I’d talk to management at the gym (I was the health director at a Y for years and we did have to talk with some members). But yes, don’t change your routine and protect your peace. Good luck!
I wonder how those conversations went when you had to talk to the over-stepper. Did those discussions lead to changed behavior? Honestly, I don’t love rejecting him, but my peace of mind is stake.
Oh I usually had them with our executive director, a man. They were pretty mild really and once the member knew that if there were any more incidents their membership would be revoked, it was fine.
I think you can be polite but direct that you are there to not make friends just work out!
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this and agree with you that you shouldn’t be put in this position, yet again. And Bill’s perspective is a good share, both for reminding us men often try to please women harkening back to their relationships with their mothers and in suggesting you be more direct with gym guy. In my experience, in most situations, men will look for the loophole in what you say to dissuade them if they want something, it’s how many if them were socialized. If you can be direct and firm, they seem to read it better. There’s always the risk of backlash but in most cases leaving them no room to question your meaning and their next move is best. Short and sweet, “Thanks for stopping by, but I don’t have a lot of time and I need to stay focused on my workouts when I’m here. Have a great day.” And, of course, smile the same smile you’d give to a woman who was cramping your workout time. Hope this helps.
I like the sentiment of the sentence you proposed, Niki. I can hear you saying that! I agree that Bill has offered us some male insight which is also very appreciated.
Direct, firm, and very very clear.
Hi!
It’s a hard topic for me to give advice on because when the gym at my corner closed years ago, I had my carpenter set me up at a gym system in my house.
I am concerned about the comment from the gentleman who mentioned that you could be in danger and that upsets me! If you continue going to that gym, and he is still there, be careful, my friend!
Thanks, Cathy. I just want to work out in peace and I'm hoping some of the great feedback and suggested language from our community today will find its way to my lips and work its magic. I'm glad you are working out on the regular. It is soooo important for us ladies.